Bible notcorruppt

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The Quran says the Bible is not corrupt!

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The Quran says the Bible is not corrupt!
Direct Link To This Post northgerrit 29 September 2006 at 8:50am Quote northgerrit Quote  Post Reply Reply
The Quran says the Bible is not corrupt

The Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Quran is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible. But this cannot be according to the Quran. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.

TORAH - "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).
PSALMS - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).
GOSPEL - "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3). Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

We see that the Quran states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God. With this we Christians heartily agree. But, the Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and full of contradictions. If that is so, then it would seem they do not believe the Quran since the Quran says that the Word of God cannot be altered:
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
"For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64).

When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Quran from Allah. This means that at that time, the Bible which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Quran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Quran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"

Contradictions in the Quran

The Quran states that it is a perfect book preserved on tablets in heaven (Surah 85:21-22). If the Quran is a perfect book from Allah, then there shouldn't be any contradictions in it. Of course, the Muslims will deny any contradictions exist in the Quran, but they do. Some of the contradictions below could be debated, but some of them are clearly contradictions. A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the possibility of another.

The first one here is a good example. In Surah 19:67, it states that man was created out of nothing. In 15:26, man is created from clay. Since clay is something, we have a contradiction since "nothing" excludes the possibility of "clay." Both cannot be true.

All quotes from the Qur'an, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, sperm or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Quran?
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

Are Allah's decrees changed or not?
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).

Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Is wine consumption good or bad?
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

Interesting quotes from the Quran

The Quran is the sacred book of Islam. It is supposed to be a perfect book, inspired, and flawless. Would you expect the following quotes from an inspired and flawless book? All quotes from the Quran, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.

It is not good to enter a house from the back
"They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back: It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors: And fear Allah: That ye may prosper," (2:189).

Cities (Sodom and Gomorrah) are turned upside down - literally!
"(The Messengers) said: "O Lut! We are Messengers from thy Lord! By no means shall they reach thee! now travel with thy family while yet a part of the night remains, and let not any of you look back: but thy wife (will remain behind): To her will happen what happens to the people. Morning is their time appointed: Is not the morning nigh?...When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer," (11:81-82)
"And We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay," (15:74).

A boy and his dog sleep for 309 years in a cave.
"Such (being their state), we raised them up (from sleep), that they might question each other. Said one of them, "How long have ye stayed (here)?" They said, "We have stayed (perhaps) a day, or part of a day." (At length) they (all) said, "Allah (alone) knows best how long ye have stayed here...So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more)," (18:19,25).

The sun set in a pool of murky water
"Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." (18:86, Yusuf Ali, translation).
Jesus spoke while in the cradle
" But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" 30He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet," (19:29-30).

King Solomon learned the speech of birds
"And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)" (27:16).
"And Solomon was David's heir. And he said: O mankind! Lo! we have been taught the language of birds, and have been given (abundance) of all things. This surely is evident favour," (27:16, Pickthall, trans.).

Ants can speak
"At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it," (27:18).
"Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving," (27:18, Pickthal, trans.).

Allah made seven heavens and seven earths
"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge," (65:12)

Shooting stars are for driving away evil spirits
And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire, (67:5).

The soul exits through the collar-bone when leaving the body.
"Yea, when (the soul) reaches to the collar-bone (in its exit), 27And there will be a cry, "Who is a magician (to restore him)?" 28And he will conclude that it was (the Time) of Parting,: (75:26-28).

Questions for Muslims

Dear Muslim, I do not post these questions as a "proof" that Islam is false. I do not believe that is possible with a simple list of questions. Nevertheless, they are here to encourage discussion that the truth may be known.

The Quran says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).   

Question: Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment?   

Question: Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?
The Quran says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.   

Question: How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?

Question: Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you may receive forgiveness?   

Question: If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?   

Question: Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?

Question: If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"

Question: If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity? Jesus paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him, (Eph. 2:8-9).

Question: Why should we Christians give up our guarantee of salvation in Jesus for the requirements of your Quranic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?

The Bible says that God is love (1 John 4:16) and that He loves all people (Matt. 5:43-48; John 3:16). The Quran never says that "God is love." In fact, the Quran says that Allah does not love unbelievers (2:98; 3:32).   

Question: If Allah does not love unbelievers, can you say that Allah is love, especially if the Quran does not say it?   

Question: If you say yes, that Allah is love, then why does he only love the Muslims and not all people?

Question: If you say Allah is love, is he more loving than the God of the Bible who loves all people? In the Bible, Jesus said in John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In Christianity, the greatest act of love is performed by God Himself -- since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9). Jesus is the one who fulfilled His own words on this. He laid His life down for us.

Question: What is the greatest act of love performed by Allah?

Question: If what Jesus said is true, then hasn't someone besides Allah performed the greatest act of love?

Question: Why do you, as a Muslim, want me to give up such a great love performed by God Himself for your belief in Allah who only loves people if they are Muslims? Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit lives in the Christians.

Question:   If the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit, how can he dwell in us?   (Note: According to the Nestle Aland Greek New Testament Textual Apparatus, there are no textual variations any of the following biblical references. They are recorded and transmitted to us accurately.)
"Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you," (2 Tim. 1:14, NASB).   
"Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16, NASB).


Lying is okay?
Question: Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).

Question: Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh?
In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong? If he was not wrong, then Allah approves of lying. Which God is more holy?

The Quran states that you shall marry only up to four women: "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or that which your right hands possess..." (4:3).
If the Quran is eternal, having been written on the table in heaven, then the four wife limit was an eternal decree.

Question: Why did Muhammad have 12 wives if the Quran says to have only four? Khadija, sawda, Aesah (8 years old), Omm Salama, Hafsa, Zaynab (originally the wife of Muhammad's adopted son), Jowayriya, Omm Habiba, Safiya, Maymuna, Fatima, Hend, Asma (of Saba), Zaynab, Habla, Asma?

The Quran says that Allah created the heavens and earth in six days. "Your Guardian Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days..." (7:54) See also, 10:3.
41:9 - "Say: Is it that ye deny him who created the earth in two days..."

Question: Which should we believe, the Bible or the Quran?
41:10 - "He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein its sustenance in four days..."
Question: Does 41:10 included the 2 days of 41:9 above? If so, why does 41:9 say God created the earth in two days, but 41:10 says that God measured its sustenance in four days? They are different occurrences.
41:11 - "Then he turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: he said to it and to the earth: 'Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly..."
41:12 - "So he completed them as seven firmaments in two days, and he assigned to heaven its duty and command..."

Question: the two days of 41:9 plus the four days of 41:10 and the 2 days of 41:12 equals eight days of creation, not six. Why is that?
It is a commonly held belief among Muslims that Muhammad was sinless.   
If Muhammad was sinless, then why does the Quran state: "Patiently, then, persevere: for the promise of Allah is true: and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and celebrate the praises of they Lord in the evening and the morning." (40:55).
Pickthall translates 40:55 thus: "Then have patience (O Muhammad). Lo! the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness of thy sin, and hymn the praise of thy Lord at fall of night and in the early hours."
The Hadith says, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day." Volume 8, Book 75, Number 319, Narrated Abu Huraira:

Question: If it is the common belief that Muhammad was sinless, why do the Quran and Hadith contradict that notion? Which is correct?
The Quran says to have no divisions within Islam. "The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the [sic] which we have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which we enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them..." (42:13).

Question: If Islam is the truth, which of the divisions within it is the "most" true?

Question: Is the muslim religion as a whole in error since there are divisions within its ranks? The Quran says, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians and the Bible], except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you," (29:46).

Question: Isn't the Quran here saying that the Muslim is to believe what the Bible says?

Muslims need the gospel

Instead of relying in any way on our own works, the gospel of Jesus teaches us we do not have to do that. The gospel of Jesus is that He died for our sins and rose again from the dead (1 Cor. 15:1-4). He fulfilled all the Law so we don't have to (Rom. 8:3-4).   He took our place and received the punishment due our sins (2 Cor. 5:21). Because we are sinners and because we cannot please an infinitely Holy God on our own, because we can never fulfill the Law of God perfectly, and because God's eyes are too pure to look upon evil (Hab. 1:13), salvation must be by total grace (Eph. 2:8). Salvation must be the work of God, not of man (Gal. 2:21).
     1 John 5:13 says, "These things were written so you may know you have eternal life..." Can the Muslim say he knows he has eternal life? He cannot. I know I do as a Christian precisely because it is not of my works. So, why would a Muslim want me to give up my assurance and free gift of salvation found in Jesus for the Islamic system of works that, at best, only provides the possibility of salvation if I have been sincere enough and if I have done enough good works?

Islam is not Peaceful

Please read the following paragraphs with the understanding that these words are unaltered words from the Quran. (The Quran was written in Arabic, but like the Holy Bible, has been translated into English with the most popular and purportedly the most accurate being the Yusuf Ali translation from which these passages are quoted). No editorial license has been taken here, nor has any emphasis been added. Lest you think that these passages have been taken out of context or altered in any way, I have included the Sura chapter and verse for each.

�Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors.� 2:190

�And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter.�2:191

�And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and let there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.� 2:193

�Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.� 2:216

�Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of Allah, - whether he is slain or gets victory � soon shall We give him a reward of great value.� 4:74

Of the Unbelievers: "seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks." 4:89

�Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home.� 4:95

�"for the Unbelievers are open enemies to you." 4:101

�For the Unbelievers, Allah has prepared a humiliating punishment.� 4:102

�From those too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent to them: so We estranged them, with enmity and hatred between one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what they have done.�5:14
This verse I consider to be the highest degree of blasphemy against God by Islam, as it states that God made a covenant and then broke it. God is not a liar, therefore, He could not break promises. To say God broke covenant is to call God a liar.
Psalms 89:34 � �My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of My lips�. Isaiah 54:10 � �For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.�

Of the Jews: �When in their insolence they transgressed all prohibitions, We said to them: "Be you apes, despised and rejected."� 7:166

"Many are the men We have made for Hell�" 7:179

�Remember your Lord inspired the angels with the message: �I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.�� 8:12

�Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah. Whatever you spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid to you and you shall not be treated unjustly.� 8:60

�O Messenger! Rouse the Believers among you to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish two thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are people without understanding.� 8:65

��Then fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war��9:5

�Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, heal the breasts of the Believers.� 9:14

�Fight those who do not believe in Allah � until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.� 9:29

�� Allah will send His punishment from Himself or by our hands.� 9:52

�It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering of the forces. Little did you think that they would get out: and they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the wrath of Allah came to them from quarters from which they had little expected it, and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their own dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers.� 59:2

�That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger: and if any one resists Allah, verily Allah is severe in punishment. Whether you cut down O you Muslims the tender palm-trees, or if you left them standing on their roots, it was by leave of Allah, and in order that He might cover with shame the rebellious transgressors.� 59:4,5

�They will not fight you even together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Strong is their fighting spirit amongst themselves: you would think they are united, but their hearts are divided: that is because they are a people devoid of wisdom.� 59:14

�Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.� 61:4

This is but a small sampling of the hatred and violence that permeates this book. This book is the very foundation upon which this religion is founded. This just doesn�t wash with the �peace-loving people� rhetoric but it does begin to explain the motivation and the actions we see on the TV and now in our own backyards. The very passages you read above and many more like it are being taught to little children throughout the world. This �religious training� is virtually guaranteeing that the next generation of terrorists is being groomed for violence and hatred while America digs out from the rubble of the last attacks.

Detractors will say "What about all the hatred and violence that has been caused in the name of Christianity?" It is true that there have been many atrocities committed on behalf of Christianity (Spanish Inquisition, and others). But none of these atrocities are in harmony with the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor are they grounded in any of the writings or principles of the New Testament. In fact these acts are diametrically opposed to the teachings and writings of Jesus who affirmed the greatest commandment(s): "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and all the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Mat. 22:37-40

The Muslim religion was created many hundreds of years after Christ. Mohammed, the Islam prophet, was born around AD 570. But Muslims believe that Islam is the true religion dating back to Adam and that the biblical patriarchs were all Muslim including Noah, Abraham, Moses, and even the Lord Jesus Christ. Today we see evidence that more and more Muslims are putting the Qurans� hatred of Christians and Jews alike into practice. We watch as they train for the �jihad� by shooting at targets with the cross of Christ painted on the chests. There is a major battle to be fought in the months and years ahead. I for one am wary of a people that embrace a religion based on a book filled with hatred while proclaiming peace.

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Direct Link To This Post Shadi_Al-amin 29 September 2006 at 10:58am Quote Shadi_Al-amin Quote  Post Reply Reply
All of those contradictions were copy and paste from Anti-muslim websites,second of all,ALL of thise contradictions are already answerd here Answering-christianity.com

I will answer 1 or 2 of them,I could answer all of them but there is way to much for me to type.

First of all The quran says that NO word of god can be changed,I agree with you.Then the quran says it sent down it's earlier Revalations to moses,noah,etc.Notice how the quran says It WILL REPLACE not REMOVE. The quran is NOT saying the bible is NOT corrupt,it is corrupt,god says in the quran that no one can change his words.You see thats not the problem in the bible it's that they ADDED and made false assumptions, they mixed the truths with lies.Then in another verse it says God will REPLACE the gospel and injil with a final book that has no doubt. The chistians are still arguing about there religion.

Second The quran states that we made from a clot of blood,water,earth,nothing. Science has PROOVED we are made of ALL these things so you see there is no contradiction. For the rest Refer to the website I gave you.BTW the anti-muslims use the SAME argument for every debate and all they do is copy and paste from anti-muslim websites.


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Direct Link To This Post BMZ 29 September 2006 at 10:14pm Quote BMZ Quote  Post Reply Reply

northgerrit,

Just a few comments:

1. Qur'aan does not know the word Bible at all. It does not mention Bible or refer to the Bible at all.

2. Qur'aan does not say that the Torah and Injeel are corrupt.

3. Qur'aan only says that the people who wrote those books had sold their souls. (I have used the words "sold their souls", because they wrote themselves what they wanted to)

4. As for myself and many Muslims, not only the Christian Bible has been forged, but also the Jewish Bible has been forged not only by the Jews but also by the Christians who wrote their OT and made changes and added as they wished or liked.

5. If one reads the Original Jewish Holy Scriptures and compares it with the Christian's Old Testament, one would be shocked to see how the Jewish Holy Scriptures have been forged and how forged is the OT in itself. 

6. Qur'aan is the only Holy Scripture of the three Abrahamic religions, that has never been edited and remains so for ever. 

Have a nice weekend.



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Direct Link To This Post Shadi_Al-amin 29 September 2006 at 11:40pm Quote Shadi_Al-amin Quote  Post Reply Reply
Originally posted by bmzsp bmzsp wrote:

northgerrit,

Just a few comments:

1. Qur'aan does not know the word Bible at all. It does not mention Bible or refer to the Bible at all.

2. Qur'aan does not say that the Torah and Injeel are corrupt.

3. Qur'aan only says that the people who wrote those books had sold their souls. (I have used the words "sold their souls", because they wrote themselves what they wanted to)

4. As for myself and many Muslims, not only the Christian Bible has been forged, but also the Jewish Bible has been forged not only by the Jews but also by the Christians who wrote their OT and made changes and added as they wished or liked.

5. If one reads the Original Jewish Holy Scriptures and compares it with the Christian's Old Testament, one would be shocked to see how the Jewish Holy Scriptures have been forged and how forged is the OT in itself. 

6. Qur'aan is the only Holy Scripture of the three Abrahamic religions, that has never been edited and remains so for ever. 

Have a nice weekend.



You are wrong there,the quran mentions the bible many times.Why do you think we call christians and jews people of the BOOK.BIBLE in greek means BOOK.So no the quran is well aware of the false and corrupted bible.

And also to answering your question the 1st poster's question:
All of those contradictions were copy and paste from Anti-muslim websites,second of all,ALL of thise contradictions are already answerd here Answering-christianity.com

I will answer 1 or 2 of them,I could answer all of them but there is way to much for me to type.

First of all The quran says that NO word of god can be changed,I agree with you.Then the quran says it sent down it's earlier Revalations to moses,noah,etc.Notice how the quran says It WILL REPLACE not REMOVE. The quran is NOT saying the bible is NOT corrupt,it is corrupt,god says in the quran that no one can change his words.You see thats not the problem in the bible it's that they ADDED and made false assumptions, they mixed the truths with lies.Then in another verse it says God will REPLACE the gospel and injil with a final book that has no doubt. The chistians are still arguing about there religion.

Second The quran states that we made from a clot of blood,water,earth,nothing. Science has PROOVED we are made of ALL these things so you see there is no contradiction. For the rest Refer to the website I gave you.BTW the anti-muslims use the SAME argument for every debate and all they do is copy and paste from anti-muslim websites.

No one can change the words of god,they didn't they just added to it.




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Direct Link To This Post BMZ 30 September 2006 at 1:22am Quote BMZ Quote  Post Reply Reply

north gerrit,

Now I refer to you entire post, which I have edited for brevity where I saw it fit,  and my comments are in blue:

The Quran says the Bible is not corrupt.

I have already commented on above in my earlier post and it is  common knowledge that it has been continuously forged over a long time till it was finally fine-tuned. The Words of God, thanks to Lord Almighty, can still be found in the Bible and the Jewish Scriptures. Yes, God's words do not change and Isaiah is the only best best example in the Jewish Bible, which confirms that.

When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Quran from Allah. This means that at that time, the Bible which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Quran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Quran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"

Yes, when Qur'aan came, Bible had already been forged during the first 451 years of the Christian Church. That is why Qur'aan was sent to give the world the Message of the Lord Almighty God, not the message of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul.

Contradictions in the Quran

Please discuss this separately if you wish. 

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, sperm or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

The first man and the first woman were created by God Himself, all the others were created through the couple. Jesus was born of a woman, created by her own body, cells/DNA, whatever you may call that.

"The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12)."

The verse means "I am commanded to be one of those who bow to Allah in Islam." Qur'aan's Arabic is the key to the understanding. You can't just base everything upon a translator's choice of words and debate.

Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

No, the Lord Almighty does not forgive such people. Moses confirmed that, Jesus confirmed the same and in fact Jesus condemned all such people. All Scriptures confirm that God does not forgive those who worship false gods or a False God. 

Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

The main decrees or commandments of the Almighty Lord do not change.

Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?

Well, Qur'aan confirms that. What does the Bible say?

Is wine consumption good or bad?

It's good for health if taken in moderation  but I don't drink wine. I have other soft drinks available. I know Jesus was a wine-maker but did he and John the Baptist ever drink? I know that Jesus is reportedly said to have "provided". No where do we see him drinking wine or toddy from the date palm.

Interesting quotes from the Quran

The Quran is the sacred book of Islam. It is supposed to be a perfect book, inspired, and flawless. Would you expect the following quotes from an inspired and flawless book? All quotes from the Quran, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.

It is not good to enter a house from the back.

Is that what you understood? That is the literal translation of Arabic. What it means is be frank, speak honestly, say what you want to say frankly, don't beat about the bush and come to the point!

A boy and his dog sleep for 309 years in a cave.
"Such (being their state), we raised them up (from sleep), that they might question each other. Said one of them, "How long have ye stayed (here)?" They said, "We have stayed (perhaps) a day, or part of a day." (At length) they (all) said, "Allah (alone) knows best how long ye have stayed here...So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more)," (18:19,25).

It is an example given showing how the Lord Almighty can save people from ruthless people. It shows that the Lord Almighty can make the chosen ones sleep and wake them up later. If Dick van Dyke can be believed to have slept for twenty years, why can't others? 

The sun set in a pool of murky water.

Yes, it did. The other day I saw it, from far when I was driving along the highway, setting in an abandoned/unused tin mine full of dirty and murky water, in Malaysia. 

Jesus spoke while in the cradle.

Unfortunately the Bible is unaware of his first thirty years of life, no one knows, his own people did not know. Even the founding fathers of the Church that he never built knew nothing about his past 30 years. He was a miraculous child for whom the magi travelled and Herod wanted him killed and yet no one kept the record of his thirty years of life. Not much is known. What was known had been thrown into the apocryphal books.

Qur'aan says that becasue he was a miraculaously born child of a teenage innocent and pure girl who bore him by the Command of God when the Lord Almighty said, "Let Mary be pregnant and have a child....so Mary had." The miraculous child had to come to his mother's defence. The Lord Almighty made the child speak. Christians should be proud of Qur'aan saying this.

If the Lord Almighty could make a donkey speak, why such a great man as Jesus (the God of my Christian friends) could not have been made to be able to speak for his mother from her arms? 

King Solomon learned the speech of birds.

King Solomon was not talking to or having intelligent conversations with pigeons, ants, doves, cattle and birds. It means he was a wise man, knew how to treat animals and took great care that the animals and birds were not harmed or trampled or burnt up in heaps like Joshua did upon the instruction from Jehovah or Yahweh.

Ants can speak

See my comment above. If a donkey can speak, then surely ants can speak too but they might be hard to hear to. Please refer to the Holy Bible regarding this donkey who spoke.

Allah made seven heavens and seven earths.

If the Lord Almighty could make four corners of the Earth, then that is also possible.

Shooting stars are for driving away evil spirits

It is something like the missile defence system. If any evil spirit or demons try to penetrate the Holiest Territory, they will be attacked and repelled. 

The soul exits through the collar-bone when leaving the body.

Where did you get that from?  Is that what you understood? 

Questions for Muslims

Dear Muslim, I do not post these questions as a "proof" that Islam is false. I do not believe that is possible with a simple list of questions. Nevertheless, they are here to encourage discussion that the truth may be known.

Yes, dear non-Muslim, I appreciate that.

The Quran says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).   

Question: Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment? 

We receive God's salvation everyday in this world and we will receive it also on the Judgement day. Yeah! We are doing good deeds and we love the Lord Almighty from the bottom of our hearts and worship only the Lord Almighty with all our hearts , all our minds and all our souls. I believe you are aware of this.  

Question: Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?

We are doing all we can to the best of our abilities with constant devotion to only the Lord Almighty.

The Quran says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.   

Question: How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?

Sincerity is not the big issue. Of course the more sincere the better. True Repentance is what the Almighty Lord appreciates. "Repent" was the main theme of one of our dear prophets, Jesus. No Repent, No Kingdom of God.

Question: Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you may receive forgiveness? 

Yes, we know about that. Qur'aan is full of that assurance. 

Question: If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself? 

As I said earlier, one of our dear prophets, Jesus taught that repent sincerely, so by doing anything sincerely, we are not deceiving the self.  

Question: Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?

Yes!

Question: If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"

I don't think so. To bow down and kneel down before the Lord Almighty makes me feel proud but that is no pride. 

Question: If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity? Jesus paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him, (Eph. 2:8-9).

I believe Jesus did not pay for anyone's sins. He paid for the dirty politics that was played by the Chief Priest, the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Romans, became a victim and was saved by Lord Almighty. We must keep in mind that Jesus was not a good politician. Jesus was very vocal.

Christians have been bluntly told about being righteous and without righteous deeds, one cannot be righteous and secure. That does not work that way with the Lord Almighty, if you have read the Jewish Holy Scriptures.

Question: Why should we Christians give up our guarantee of salvation in Jesus for the requirements of your Quranic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?

No, you don't have to. If only one item is important to get salvation free, then the (Islamic equivalent is Imaan, the firm belief in the One Lord Almighty.

The Bible says that God is love (1 John 4:16) and that He loves all people (Matt. 5:43-48; John 3:16). The Quran never says that "God is love." In fact, the Quran says that Allah does not love unbelievers (2:98; 3:32). 

We have seen the love of God for unbelievers throught the Holy Bible. So let's not go there.    

Question: If Allah does not love unbelievers, can you say that Allah is love, especially if the Quran does not say it?  

Please go back to the past Scriptures to see if God had love for the unbelievers. Yes, Qur'aan says that the Lord Almighty Allah is full of Love and the word is Wadood. It is more than Love can describe it.  

Question: If you say yes, that Allah is love, then why does he only love the Muslims and not all people?

Allah, the Lord Almighty loves all believers and all Scriptures confirm this. By the way, God is not Love, God is full of Love and Mercy.

Question: If you say Allah is love, is he more loving than the God of the Bible who loves all people? In the Bible, Jesus said in John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In Christianity, the greatest act of love is performed by God Himself -- since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9). Jesus is the one who fulfilled His own words on this. He laid His life down for us.

Well, to us, Jesus is neither God in flesh nor in Spirit. He is not God at all. We reject that misconception and story because Jesus never taught that himself. It was John's idea based on a doubter's remark. I think that doubter was Thomas. We can't rely on a doubter or a liar's testimony. In fact that is no testimony, it is just an statement made.

Question: What is the greatest act of love performed by Allah?

Creation of the mankind and letting it live in cycles of life.

Question: If what Jesus said is true, then hasn't someone besides Allah performed the greatest act of love?

There have been numerous people besides Jesus who were kind and gave love to their people.

Question: Why do you, as a Muslim, want me to give up such a great love performed by God Himself for your belief in Allah who only loves people if they are Muslims? Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit lives in the Christians.

Satan also lives and dwells in humans.

Question:   If the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit, how can he dwell in us?   

Holy Spirit of Christianity is bigger than Jesus and the father. If it can dwell in humans, anythingelse surely can, being smaller.  By the way, we do not believe that Gabriel lives in us. Actually nothing dwells in us except our own souls. The good and the evil reside in man.

"Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16, NASB).

This is just figurative and should not be taken seriously.  


Lying is okay?

According to Qur'aan, lying is not okay. According to Holy Bible, it is okay.

Question: Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh?

I have not seen Yahweh as totally holy in the Bible, so I would not use that name. I would say Allah, the Lord God Almighty.

The Quran states that you shall marry only up to four women: "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or that which your right hands possess..." (4:3).
If the Quran is eternal, having been written on the table in heaven, then the four wife limit was an eternal decree.

Question: Why did Muhammad have 12 wives if the Quran says to have only four? Khadija, sawda, Aesah (8 years old), Omm Salama, Hafsa, Zaynab (originally the wife of Muhammad's adopted son), Jowayriya, Omm Habiba, Safiya, Maymuna, Fatima, Hend, Asma (of Saba), Zaynab, Habla, Asma?

Before Qur'aan's arrival, both the holies and unholies could have a multitude of wives, their sisters, slave-women and concubines. There was no limit. For Muhammad it was an order to stop at 12 and for Muslims to stop at 4.

Question: Which should we believe, the Bible or the Quran?

Regarding that matter, believe in both but don't believe that God was tired and rested on the 7th day.

Question: the two days of 41:9 plus the four days of 41:10 and the 2 days of 41:12 equals eight days of creation, not six. Why is that?

Don't worry about that. It simply means God Almighty created everything according to a plan and in stages.

It is a commonly held belief among Muslims that Muhammad was sinless.   
If Muhammad was sinless, then why does the Quran state: "Patiently, then, persevere: for the promise of Allah is true: and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and celebrate the praises of they Lord in the evening and the morning." (40:55)."

What has being sinless got to do with patience? Jesus was not a very patient man, you know that! He was always adverse and arrogant, that almost cost him his life.

Question: If Islam is the truth, which of the divisions within it is the "most" true?

You have got to look at the fundamentals of Islam and these are common to all.

Question: Is the muslim religion as a whole in error since there are divisions within its ranks? The Quran says, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians and the Bible], except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you," (29:46).

No, every religion has sects and divisions in it's ranks.

Question: Isn't the Quran here saying that the Muslim is to believe what the Bible says?

No!

Muslims need the gospel

Instead of relying in any way on our own works, the gospel of Jesus teaches us we do not have to do that. The gospel of Jesus is that He died for our sins and rose again from the dead (1 Cor. 15:1-4). He fulfilled all the Law so we don't have to (Rom. 8:3-4).   He took our place and received the punishment due our sins (2 Cor. 5:21). Because we are sinners and because we cannot please an infinitely Holy God on our own, because we can never fulfill the Law of God perfectly, and because God's eyes are too pure to look upon evil (Hab. 1:13), salvation must be by total grace (Eph. 2:8). Salvation must be the work of God, not of man (Gal. 2:21).
     1 John 5:13 says, "These things were written so you may know you have eternal life..." Can the Muslim say he knows he has eternal life? He cannot. I know I do as a Christian precisely because it is not of my works. So, why would a Muslim want me to give up my assurance and free gift of salvation found in Jesus for the Islamic system of works that, at best, only provides the possibility of salvation if I have been sincere enough and if I have done enough good works?

Well, those are John's opinions, not the opinion and teachings of Jesus. They are mere hearsay.

Islam is not Peaceful

Islam is peaceful but humans all over the world are not.



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Direct Link To This Post Sawtul Khilafah 30 September 2006 at 10:44am Quote Sawtul Khilafah Quote  Post Reply Reply

Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

Originally posted by northgerrit northgerrit wrote:


"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
"For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64).

The Quran states Clearly that the Jews and Christians altered the previous scriptures.

However, here the term "word of Allah" actually means "Promise of Allah". Like when you say "I give you my word." This becomes clearer if you read the above verses in Arabic.

None can change Allah's word(s) means that no one can change Allah's promise, meaning that when Allah says something, it will happen no matter what!

Like the verse you quoted: "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice". Clearly "word" means promise, as promises need fulfillment.

However, there is another verse in the Quran that says the Quran will be protected by Allah (from alteration):

Verily, We have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian/protector (Quran, 15:9)

Notice the above verse is only referring to THIS exhoration (the Quran), not other holy books.

As for the Bible being changed, even the Bible itself says at the end (the last chapters of the book of revelation) that those who change it will be cursed. So this proves that the Bible CAN be changed, which is why the Bible curses those who will change it!

If the Bible couldnt be changed, it would not condemn those who will change it! It would not even consider the possiblity.

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Direct Link To This Post Shadi_Al-amin 30 September 2006 at 7:53pm Quote Shadi_Al-amin Quote  Post Reply Reply
Adding OR changing makes the bible corrupt,the bible IS corrupt but the qur'an dosen't say that.They added to the words of god but they didn't change it.So bmzsp good job explaining it,I'm glad there are smart muslims on this forum.
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Direct Link To This Post BMZ 30 September 2006 at 7:57pm Quote BMZ Quote  Post Reply Reply

Shadi_Al-Amin,

From you: "You are wrong there,the quran mentions the bible many times.Why do you think we call christians and jews people of the BOOK.BIBLE in greek means BOOK.So no the quran is well aware of the false and corrupted bible."

You are misinformed. In order to know the People of the Book, you don't have to know Greek. You have got to know what is a book called in Hebrew and Aramaic.

Hope you must have read the words Ketubah and Ketubim in Hebrew and Aramaic. See how close these are to the Arabic words Kataba, Khutba and Kitab?  



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